EP 6 | Somatic Wisdom & Nervous System Healing with Rose Covenant

In this episode, somatic trauma practitioner and nervous system guide, Rose Covenant, shares her journey from chronic pain to profound healing. With certifications in integrative somatic trauma therapy and energy-based techniques, Rose discusses how true healing happens in the body, not just the mind. 

Through personal stories and professional insights, she delves into breaking free from old subconscious patterns, feeling truly safe in one's body, and the transformation possible when we focus on somatic recalibration. Rose shares her valuable perspectives on healing generational trauma, creating safety within, and embracing your authentic self.

You can learn more about Rose, and her Somatic Recalibration method here: 

https://iamrosecovenant.com/

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You are stronger than you think, healing is possible, and we'll be here every step of the way. Until next time—take care and keep going.

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Amanda: Today's guest is Rose Covenant, a somatic trauma practitioner and nervous system guide who helps high achievers break free from survival mode and reconnect with their true power with certifications in integrative somatic trauma therapy, neuroplasticity and energy-based techniques like EFT and TFT tapping, Rose brings a grounded, embodied approach to healing.

[00:00:26] Katie: But this isn't just theory, it is lived experience. For years, rose did all the right things, chasing success, overgiving, and pushing through until she realized that true healing doesn't happen in the mind alone, it happens in the body. Through her own journey of somatic recalibration, she reclaimed her sense of ease, power, and expansion, and now she guides others to do exactly the same. 

[00:00:56] Amanda: In this episode, we dive deep into what it means to feel truly safe in your body, how to break free from old subconscious patterns, and the incredible transformation that's possible when we stop striving and start softening. 

[00:01:10] Katie: 

 Hi Rose. Lovely to have you on the podcast. So to kick things off I'd love it if you could share a bit about your personal journey and really what led you into the world of somatic healing. .

[00:01:23] Rose : So trauma, you know, short answer. So I.

[00:01:29] Amanda: I had a feeling.

[00:01:31] Rose : Works and trauma healing. So for me, it was really a journey of reconnecting to myself. So I had a 10 year career in public health. I lived and worked in different countries in West Africa. I had a big team. I was really in that high achieving perfectionist, 

Like I can get things done in hard places. I was also living in chronic pain for eight years of that. like anyone with physical pain, went to all the doctors, tried all the things. Long story short, none of that worked. in 2020, when I came back to the US, because I basically had to leave because of covid, I came across mind body healing.

And within. Two minutes of reading the introduction, I was like, All of a sudden everything made sense, right? You have a challenging childhood. You develop these tendencies of being a high achiever, of burning yourself out of overgiving, being a perfectionist, and when we hold so much emotional pain well as nervous system dysregulation, which is all, you know, I basically lived in fight or flight since I was in utero. So I understood, okay, my body isn't actually broken, or I hoped it wasn't because at first it's, it's hope, it's not knowing. When I really invested myself 

In unweaving, the emotional roots that had caused the pain signal to be on in my brain in the first place. I recovered from pain in like two or three months after having been in pain every single moment of every single day for six and a half years, and a year and a half off and on before then. so that. Really led me to understand how much we as a society live in dissociation. We are socialized to live in our minds. We spend all of our time being in our heads and we're completely separated from our bodies. So that's what started my journey into reconnecting with the body. So somatics is just soma.

Soma means body. So now I use a combination of somatic work, EFT, tapping energetics, inner child work, journeying to help people to get back to the roots of why 

Their body is holding so much tension, why it's holding pain, why it's holding these survival patterns that. so aware, right? We can see ourselves doing the pattern.

We can see ourselves like stressing out because that guy hasn't text us, texted us back, and it's been 30 seconds already. And we know from this intellectual place that we are like these strong, independent, connected, you know, human beings. But then the, the trauma and the survival patterns that are still living in our bodies us in these loops.

And so for around three years, I was working with people to recover from pain. And then I found that I was still really happy. I was like, okay, I am traveling the world. I have this amazing business. I'm helping people recovering from pain, but I'm still day to day living most of my time, like worrying about the future.

Where am I gonna go? What am I gonna do? When am I gonna meet my partner? When am I gonna, and that led me to doing a deeper level of work, getting more into the. Energetic side of things, more 

Tapped into the energy of things to let go of deeper layers. That even though intellectually I had like understood and I had journaled about and I put a little bow on, I still hadn't integrated that healing into my body.

It was still very intellectual. So I've pivoted the work that I do now to really support people in their awakening journey, to heal from these patterns, these shadows, this trauma, that as we grow and expand and we hold more and more energy, higher and higher frequency, all of these things that are no longer congruent with us are no longer aligned or coming up. So that is what led me into the recalibration effect, which is a blended method of somatic CFT nervous system or regulation, inner child work, journeying to really get at those emotional roots that are causing us to still act out these survival patterns even though maybe intellectually we know that we like, we should know better. 

[00:05:54] Katie: Hmm. Yeah. That's beautiful. I love that. Do you think, okay, so question, do you think you would've had that aha moment if you hadn't of moved back to the UK to America? I was gonna say the UK Back to America in 2020? 

[00:06:09] Rose : no, I don't

[00:06:10] Katie: hmm.

[00:06:10] Rose : I think the, the universe conspired in such a way that I could take that information in because when I was living in West Africa in difficult security context, I was so hypervigilant, so on alert. I was in fight or flight, but not just this like, oh, I'm fight or flight, but I know that I'm really safe.

It was like fight or flight, but I'm not actually really safe. And so in order for me to be able to, to take in that information, that I could heal myself, that it was neuroplastic, that I could heal the emotional wounds of it. I had to be in a place that was at least physically safe enough

[00:06:46] Katie: Yeah,

[00:06:47] Rose : I could

[00:06:47] Katie: yeah,

[00:06:48] Rose : regulate enough to take that in.

[00:06:51] Katie: yeah. You've had to correct that space, didn't you?

[00:06:54] Rose : Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, the 

Space

[00:06:56] Katie: Yeah.

[00:06:56] Rose : for me. I would not have chosen that space at the time.

[00:06:59] Katie: Yeah. True.

[00:07:01] Rose : that way. Of course. Yeah.

[00:07:03] Katie: Yeah. It's amazing how these sing. Yeah, exactly.

[00:07:06] Amanda: that,

[00:07:06] Katie: Yeah. I was just gonna say that Amanda.

[00:07:08] Amanda: yeah, they have a way of working themselves out. And I love that you speak to the, difference between the intellectual knowing of a concept, the in intellectual understanding of, oh, I, I can understand that my body is in a state of stress right now, but there's a difference between understanding something at that level and actually embodying it, actually like living that difference.

[00:07:36] Rose : Yeah, it's two 

[00:07:37] Katie: incredibly 

[00:07:38] Rose : different

[00:07:38] Katie: Yeah.

[00:07:38] Rose : things. It's like we need that certain, that level of safety and our minds are so overactive and take more energy than any other part of our body for so long. It's like we need to go through that step of intellectually understanding. Like my background is in public health.

I have a master's in public health. So when I was first reading about mindbody it was like, but show me the peer reviewed journal articles though. Like, I want,

[00:08:05] Amanda: Yeah.

[00:08:06] Rose : show me the science, show me the proof. And a big theme for me and in this whole journey is when you go far enough around in the science and the peer review journal articles, you get to quantum physics and that's where you meet the woo. Like it's just

[00:08:23] Amanda: Yeah.

[00:08:24] Rose : And that piece about language has been such a, such an opportunity for division. Between people, division, between healing methodologies, division between like schools of thought, really, for the most part, in the healing space, we're all talking about the same thing, enough

[00:08:42] Amanda: Yes.

[00:08:43] Rose : in your mind and your body, and your brain and your nervous system that your body can repair itself.

Either turn off the pain signal in the brain or actually heal itself. Like that's what we're designed to do. That's what these human bodies designed to do. Like you don't have a, a cut or a scrape and look at it and you're like, well, maybe it'll never heal. Like you never have that thought. But when we get into

[00:09:05] Katie: Hmm. 

[00:09:05] Rose : Of having chronic ways of thinking, feeling, being different conditions in our body, we, we can get tricked into the idea that we're gonna have that forever.

And that's, not really the

[00:09:19] Katie: Hmm. Yeah. And it's always classed as woo-hoo until there's science to back it up. But it's just funny that the science is actually catching up now and backing it up. So,

[00:09:30] Rose : Yeah. Well, I think

[00:09:31] Katie: yeah. That's amazing.

[00:09:32] Rose : well, like science is It is based on experimentation, and the things that are

[00:09:38] Katie: Hmm.

[00:09:38] Rose : to be experimented upon are what's in vogue. And some hundred years ago, like what was in vogue was leeches or like, you know, cocaine in Coca-Cola, and that was prescribed. And so if we get so attached to what can science explain at this moment, we're becoming overly attached to like, what are the, what are the fads, what are the scientists allowed to study? What are the tools that they have available? And as you said, in this day and age, we're getting more and more into that quantum physics realm, into the consciousness realm of entanglement and like, oh, everything, everything's connected. ... but actually not just in 

This

[00:10:15] Amanda: Yeah.

[00:10:16] Rose : you know, woowoo way. And even having the division between like, what's, what's science and what's alternative? What's, what's woowoo? It's just this label to de-legitimize things that people have. Known for thousands and thousands of years. 

[00:10:32] Katie: Yeah.

[00:10:33] Amanda: And I find it so funny that, like you said, there's so many people arguing, but essentially they, they're saying the same things, just using different language. that kind of brings me to the, the concept of spirituality on this healing journey. But I think if you read enough, whether it's 

In the realm of health, neuroplasticity, spirituality, religion, if you take in enough information, you start to see the patterns and start to see that we're all really talking about the same thing here, but we're arguing over the, the language involved.

[00:11:12] Katie: I couldn't agree more. I literally couldn't agree more with that. Especially when it comes to religion. 

[00:11:18] Amanda: Mm-hmm.

[00:11:19] Katie: I spent that month in India in November, it really became apparent then how it's all linked together. Especially when you talk about religion and you are kind of in that environment. It's just, yeah, it's just amazing and super like aha moments all the time.

[00:11:37] Rose : Yeah, so it's ultimately the way I look at healing is we're ultimately just coming back to our truth. And when we're in our truth, like my truth doesn't have to be exactly what your truth is, but our truth is conditioned through all of the lens and the language that we've grown up with, and, and all of that is fine, like whatever path that is.

And when we're 

In a place of alignment, coherence within ourselves, then naturally we come to this place of peace and connectedness and happiness. A huge theme for me in the last few years and in my work is around happiness and shifting. our concept of happiness, like as high achievers. A lot of people will think like, oh, happiness is this dopamine hit that I get when I like, Ooh, I had that goal.

I got the goal. Alright, spend 30 seconds. So I'm gonna go ahead and get back to beating myself up now because that is my baseline. And really, happiness is our birthright. And happiness is the state of gentle connectedness, of peacefulness, of being present. And when we can all of the conditioning and the wounding that keeps us out of presence, we can actually be here in this earthly experience, which is what we came for. We didn't come into this earthly experience to be like constantly worrying about some made up future or ruminating about our version of what we think the past was like. One of the super

[00:13:04] Katie: Yeah. 

[00:13:04] Rose : Memory is that when we remember something, we don't remember the event. We remember the last time we remembered it. So it's like this game of telephone. That we're playing with ourselves, that's filtered through how we are feeling. When we remember it, I just across

[00:13:18] Katie: Hmm.

[00:13:18] Amanda: Yeah.

[00:13:20] Rose : reading, letting go. pathway of surrender. One of the interesting brain things is that our brain doesn't file by category. It files by emotion and degree of emotion. So when we look at healing as we've accumulated all of this dense emotional stuff and diversion to the high emotional stuff, because we're also conditioned to not joy or to not trust joy and happiness, 

When we can look at it as like, okay, we've built up these wells of emotion, of suppressed emotion, and ultimately that's what causes so much trouble in the body. Like it suppresses our immune system. It can turn on pain signals, it can make our digestion wonky. It can mess up our reproductive health. If we can look at it through a lens of, okay, through natural. Well, natural is a stretch through the conditioning and the experiences that I've had, every human is carrying around these different buckets of denser emotions and some amount of conditioning of like, I have to earn happiness, or It's not safe for me to be happy.

Or, oh, maybe I'll be happy until the next shoe drops. When we can look at healing as this universal experience of, of excavating that emotional pain that was never really ours to hold, but we, we held it 'cause we thought we were supposed to, then we can come to this background of happiness and that's where healing becomes possible because our body, we're not fighting ourselves and then our body can come into a place of happiness is a baseline, peacefulness is a baseline.

Being healthy and well is a baseline instead of being this yeah, constant battle with ourselves. 

[00:15:04] Amanda: Mm-hmm. Well said.

[00:15:07] Katie: Yeah.

[00:15:08] Amanda: you, you mentioned earlier somatic recalibration. I would love to hear what that means to you, and for someone who maybe doesn't know that terminology, what does that look like?

[00:15:22] Rose : Yeah, 

So soma means the body, and so ultimately the work that I do is to reconnect the mind, the body, the energy, so that you are living in a place of alignment and allowing the full human experience. It's not like you do this recalibration and then every single moment you're on a unicorn and you're riding a rainbow and everything is fireworks and exciting. It's, it's having that baseline of happiness and connection and really it's a recalibration, I can think like a radio station of this default of fear, of separation, of scarcity, of survival. And all of these like maladaptive patterns that we have in relationship with ourselves, with others, they're all coming from a survival place of I need to make sure that I'm protected.

And so in order to do that, I'm going to be avoidant or I'm going to be anxious, or I'm going really worry about that guy texting me 

Or, well, he texted me and now I have to wait 17 minutes to text him back. ' cause otherwise he's gonna think it's like all of this external, we become very externally oriented for our sense of safety. And the tricky thing about being externally oriented to find safety is that subconsciously we know it's not safe because we know if our source of

[00:16:40] Amanda: Hmm.

[00:16:41] Rose : is external, it can always change.

[00:16:43] Katie: Mm.

[00:16:44] Rose : They can always get hit by a meteor, they can leave, they can. But when we recalibrate internally from this place of, I'm trying to find safety from every other way, I'm trying to find love from every other thing.

I'm trying to, I can't trust myself, so I actually need to. Outsource my sovereignty to other people. 'cause they know better than I know. When we can recalibrate, and really that's a process of healing these core wounds so that we can come back into a place of knowing that we are loved and we are lovable and we are safe emotionally, energetically, physically, that we can keep ourselves safe and we can trust ourselves and the universe or higher power, or God 

Or source, or whatever word resonates with someone, we can trust life. That's the recalibration of coming from this place of survival mode where we're always waiting for that next shoe to drop, to recalibrating our mind, our body, our energy system into a state of happiness, of peace of joy, where we can still have desires and create things, but it's motivated from a place of. Of love and creation with the world, not from a place of, oh my God, I have to make sure my needs are met, and so now I need to hustle. Like my first entire career was built out of a trauma response, like I was a high achiever.

[00:18:06] Amanda: Yeah.

you know, anyone asked me to do things. Yes, yes, yes. I went from being an intern to being a country director in charge of millions of dollars and hundreds of staff in 10 years because that was rewarded there. It didn't matter that it burned me out. It didn't matter that I was in a lot of physical pain. It didn't matter that at lunchtime I would literally put my head on the desk because I was exhausted,

[00:18:32] Katie: Yeah.

For someone who's, for someone who's listening to this and can massively resonate with not just one part of the story, but multiple, how would you, what would be the first step for them to start on this healing journey when it comes to somatic healing?

[00:18:48] Rose : Hmm. So it depends where they are in the journey. The game changer for me was finding someone who embodied the way that I wanted to be feeling, and that's how I found the mentor that I work with now. So that is really my best piece of advice. Like if you've done the talk therapy, you've been to some breath work, you've done some reiki, some acupuncture, like you already know what these patterns are, and it just feels like you can't quite shift them find someone who is embodying how you want to exist in the world work with them to help you to. Move through those places of stuckness. ultimately for me, when I was in this place of like, okay, I've recovered from pain, but I'm still, I basically living in high functioning anxiety, like moved through the, the place of dread. But my mind was just like a hamster who had taken 10 red bulls and was like, I'm just gonna, know, like, until the hamster, 

Just, that was it. And because I had recovered from pain, I knew that it was possible intellectually to heal. I knew it was possible to change my beliefs. I knew it was possible to feel different. And I had also felt like this of my life. So many people

[00:20:10] Amanda: Yeah.

[00:20:10] Rose : oh, I'm anxious, I'm, I'm this, I'm that. Because they're so identified with that reality. And when we can find someone, a therapist, a coach, a mentor, a guide, a yoga teacher, a. Whatever it is, whatever really feels aligned for you. Not what you think you are supposed to do, not what you think you should do, really trusting your heart of hearing someone on a podcast, seeing them on YouTube, meeting them, I don't know, in a coffee shop wherever, and trusting that feeling that, hey, this person has moved through what I wanna move through. Because otherwise it's all intellectual. Like one 

Of the biggest gifts in, in my work with my mentor and the work that I do with clients is that it's finding someone who has done their own deep work, who has seen their own deepest shadows and can hold that deep space for you. It's not about more tools, it's not about more intellectual understanding.

It's about borrowing someone's safety, borrowing their nervous system, basically to be able to go to these deep dark places. Like when I started working with someone in the last few years, it wasn't because I needed more tools. I was like, I just wanna find someone who does what I do, but for me,

[00:21:29] Katie: Mm.

[00:21:30] Rose : that's essentially like a form of co-regulation. Like you said, you are borrowing someone else's nervous system, somebody who's walked that path and can meet you from a place of personal, deep personal empathy 

It's like someone who can hold the light when you are questioning if it's there.

[00:21:49] Amanda: Hmm.

North 

North star, yeah.

[00:21:52] Rose : 

 When I first, I had gone to a few different therapists to try to, you know, I was aware that I had emotional stuff, I could feel them feeling uncomfortable with some of the things that I'd shared.

[00:22:03] Rose : 

 then, you know, over giving caretaking, are you okay? Am I here for you? So the, the real key isn't finding, there are many proven processes, many proven methods to be able to to heal, to grow. It's really just a matter of finding who makes you feel safe, seen and heard, that can hold space for you to move through that. 

[00:22:30] Amanda: I am curious to know if you have any tricks that you can pass on to the audience for knowing when something feels like truth in your body, because for me, this is something I've learned over the last few years, that if I am in deep resonance with what someone is saying and something feels like truth, I'll get like goosebumps or like full body tingles and it's like a confirmation for me that it's like it's landing deep within.

Do you have any tricks that you, or like cues that you follow?

[00:23:06] Rose : For me, if it's a question of if something is in alignment or not, I will put my hand on my heart and breathe for three minutes. Or even just a few breaths is better than nothing, and then ask my heart a, an this or that question, yes or no, this or that, left or right. the more you practice that when it's from the heart, you'll get a clear yes or no. it's from the mind, it'll be like, yes, because, and this, and that and that, and you're like, Hmm, It wasn't the heart.

[00:23:40] Katie: I was hectic.

[00:23:41] Rose : Yeah. And a great tip to practice this is to just like, take a day, out on a walk and at every inflection point left or right, this or that, you know, sandwich or smoothie develop the, the muscle of listening to your heart.

So often we're just here and our heart is largely ignored, and our heart is where our, our deepest connected wisdom comes from.

[00:24:08] Katie: Yeah. And our truth, and I feel like a lot of people tend to ignore their intuition or they don't trust it enough to follow it. Me, I used to be like that. Would you? Give any alternative tips for people that are struggling with actually like tuning into their intuition and wanting to learn to listen to it, and how to really go about that. 

[00:24:29] Rose : Yeah, it's, it's largely a question of discernment because we can put our hand on our heart and we can get a message, and then it's discerning over time. Was that actually a message from Love from our Heart, or was that fear masquerading as our heart there's, there's no quick tip for that. That's a coming back to yourself again and again and again. Hearing that little intuitive hit and following it or not, and seeing what happens and when we don't follow it, instead of beating ourselves up, being like, I actually did get an intuitive hit about that, which I did not follow, and next time perhaps I will listen more. And it's,

[00:25:11] Katie: I.

[00:25:12] Rose : it's a journey of knowing ourselves moment by moment.

It's, it's not like. degree where we're like, all right, now I can hear my intuition. Boom. Like this, this is, this is the game of life. To hear

[00:25:24] Katie: Yeah.

[00:25:25] Rose : soul's truth or heart's truth, and to accept that are in these human bodies. We've had decades of conditioning. Sometimes we're gonna discern correctly.

Sometimes we're not gonna discern correctly. Sometimes we'll hear it, sometimes we won't. Sometimes we'll think it's our heart. Sometimes it'll actually be fear, but the more that we can commit to our own personal healing journey, finding the, the support or the tools or whatever method supports you 

To be able to clarify that is the other thing about the hearing, our intuition being in our heart is it's, it's like looking through a lens. And so when we are carrying around trauma on our lens, we're carrying around survival patterns on our lens. We're feeling unsafe. We have this default belief that, you know, we're unlovable when we have all that through our lens. We're not gonna hear our intuition super well.

[00:26:19] Amanda: Yeah.

[00:26:21] Rose : if we're really committed to that journey of I want to reconnect with my soul, I want to be my authentic self, I want to take off these masks of like what I've pretended to be consciously or subconsciously, I really wanna know myself.

That's a deep healing journey.

[00:26:35] Katie: Mm.

[00:26:37] Rose : And it can

[00:26:38] Katie: Yeah.

[00:26:38] Rose : start with the intuition, but the, the more that we do the deep healing work to clear off the stuff from our lens, the more easily we can connect with our intuition and our truth.

[00:26:50] Katie: For, for people who have tried doing this work, and it's kind of like they're constantly hitting a roadblock, whether that be breath work or reiki, nothing's coming up for them. It's kind of like the visions aren't there, they're not feeling anything. It, it's almost like a numb sensation when they're doing this kind of work and they're getting like more and more frustrated because p some people have like profound experiences.

Right? And then I. If you're feeling like you're not getting anything from this, is that because they're in a, a state of almost like they've got blocks in the way or their subconscious is not letting them get through for some reason. What, what would be reasons for why they're experiencing their healing journey that particular way, rather than someone who's like having these like amazing visions and experiences and their, their trajectory is like just going up and up and up and they're feeling great. 

[00:27:49] Rose : Hmm. It comes down to safety. So if you are in a one-off breath work session, you go to one retreat, you go to. A couple of Reiki sessions, there may not be enough safety with you and the facilitator that your subconscious feels safe, letting up those

[00:28:12] Katie: Mm.

[00:28:13] Rose : and, and breath work is something that if you don't have the right support, it can be really traumatizing. Like I actually just did a few months ago, a deep breath work and some capital T trauma came up for me that I wasn't aware that I had. you know, I'm a practitioner, I have a lot of tools and da, da da. was all I could do to move through enough of the emotion of it to put a bow on it and to bring it to my mentor the next week. And I'm someone who's highly trained and skilled, and experienced with dealing with trauma. And that wouldn't have come up if I didn't have the resources that, that someone else was gonna also help me hold that container. So I think a lot of people in the healing, and I definitely went through this phase as well, where it's like, I'm not feeling great either in my mind or my body, and I'm gonna do everything. I'm gonna do a little bit of everything try to fix it because I'm broken. first, 

PSA, you're not broken. You're whole, you're complete. This is just fear on its way out. But when we go to these different methodologies, either we're not feeling safe with a practitioner, our body isn't ready for that sort of work, right?

So our subconscious is, is holding on and whenever we're feeling numb, physically, it's our body's way of protecting us. Like in my healing journey, I also went through a lot of pelvic numbness. I thought that was just normal. oh yeah, numbness. That's just, that's just for the first, you know, 30 years of my life. Okay? Not, not so normal, but it's our body's way of protecting us. So if someone's coming up against that roadblock where they're trying all these different things, ask them where they feel safe. Like where do you feel safe? Where do you feel seen? Can you find someone that can hold the space for you also in a long enough container? I, because I, I don't

[00:30:14] Amanda: Yeah.

offer off 

[00:30:15] Rose : sessions because it's not in integrity for me to go into someone's, you know journey, Maybe we bring up their deepest, darkest, we don't know what's gonna come up. You never know what's gonna come up when you come into the body. Maybe it's a big trauma, maybe it's nothing. But then to say, okay, good luck.

[00:30:35] Katie: Yeah.

[00:30:38] Rose : my, my

[00:30:39] Amanda: Yeah. 

[00:30:39] Rose : Are six months long. Because first it takes however much time it takes for that person to come into a place of feeling safe in their mind and their body and their energy, not just with me, but with themselves. All of these things that are suppressed, they're suppressed out of consciousness because our. Mind fears that if they come into consciousness, they'll overwhelm the system. And so instead of trying to immediately go to your deepest, darkest thing, find that place where you're actually feeling safe, where you can come back into feeling sensations. When I first started doing this work, the idea of like, just put my hand on my heart and ask for a message, I'd be like, what are you even talking about? Like, it deeply did not make any sense because I was so disembodied, I was so disconnected from my body because of body trauma and it didn't feel safe in my body. So my brain was like, got it. Pulling it up here, the only thing we feel down there is numbness and pain. Alright. Like that was a great survival mechanism, not

[00:31:39] Katie: Mm.

[00:31:40] Rose : to continue living. So yeah, it's about finding that safety in a container where you can trust that you'll be supported with whatever comes up.

[00:31:54] Katie: Yeah. And allowing people to know that it's a step-by-step process. Right. You know, and having that expectation because it's not something that is a quick fix, like you said. Before and just giving yourself that self-compassion is super important during this 

Journey too. I think a lot of people just have low patience and don't actually realize how long this can take.

So then they just take that as a negative as well, and a setback when really just these tiny little small steps that they take regularly and consistently brings the bigger picture to fruition.

[00:32:34] Rose : and it, it depends as well on what. What you're moving through, what your experiences are, what your nervous system resilience is. When I was recovering from pain, I recovered from pain in two or three months. I had my first moment of no pain after five weeks, and I was like, oh my God, it works, right? This is real. And after two to three months, I was pain free. And then I had eight weeks of the most crazy intense anxiety that I like. I didn't know that, that could be an experience. It was just like this dread for days and days and days. I knew that because of what I knew about mind/body healing, that this was a symptom substitution, but at the time it was just like, and then it's, it's always a question, right?

It's like some people do this sort of healing, growth, personal development work. They've, their body has forced them, or their mind has forced them through anxiety, depression, you know, GI issues, migraines, whatever. To do this work, or maybe it's an emotional, dark night of the soul. 

And for some people, they want to climb the mountain enough where they feel a bit better.

You know, the sensation is gone That's it. And then for other people, it becomes this journey of ascension, this journey of, I wanna know my soul. I want to live in presence. I wanna live from a place of feeling connected and love in my heart, and actually present and hearing my intuition.

And that's a bigger hike up the mountain. And there's no right or wrong with where someone wants to go, but it's also finding the right support. Like for me, I had gotten to the middle of the mountain or wherever the mountain is like, okay, the sensation is gone, but I don't wanna feel like this. Like I don't wanna feel like this for the next 50, 60, 70 years. And a lot of the people that I tried to find were people who had also gone to the middle of the mountain. I'm like, well, who's. Who's hiked up that thing, you know, like who's actually feeling happy and, and secure and in trust and in love. that's really where the, the coaching or the mentorship or the teaching comes in.

It's finding someone who has gone to another depth, not that it's better or they're ahead or they're higher or you're behind, but finding that that 

Depth of embodiment, however far someone wants to go in their journey. Like maybe they just want the resolution of symptoms and then they're happy living their life the way it is.

And that's also great for me. That wasn't it. I started going up the mountain and I was like, I'm getting to the top of this thing. I'm still not at the top, just spoiler alert, like we're still going. This is

[00:35:18] Katie: Yeah,

[00:35:18] Rose : journey.

[00:35:20] Katie: yeah. And what you described a, a a bit earlier is what me and Amanda talk about a lot, and that is that healing isn't a linear. Journey. You know, like you said, you went through this, this chapter of having no pain and overcoming that, but then you had this severe anxiety installed and it's like n knowing that that isn't a setback, it's just part of the process.

Is also I think something that's super important for people to be aware of. Because a lot of people would just think, that's it. I failed, I'm throwing in the towel, and then reverting back to this, like all or nothing mindset that we speak about a lot,

[00:35:59] Rose : Mm-hmm.

[00:35:59] Katie: actually taking a step back and learning to trust yourself, like you say, and knowing that this is just another chapter in the journey.

And they're gonna come out the other side, even a more confident, a stronger person. It's just part of the beautiful process.

[00:36:16] Rose : Yeah. And it's cycles of Rebirth. I think

[00:36:19] Katie: Mm-hmm.

[00:36:20] Rose : When, when we start the healing journey, however, we, you know, define the start, stop of that, it usually comes from a place of, I feel broken and someone else has to fix me now. And, 

[00:36:31] Amanda: Yeah.

[00:36:32] Rose : place of, okay, these symptoms have resolved or they've most really resolved, or now I'm actually seeing them as the message.

They are, you know, they're gone. And then, oh, I start not listening to myself. I start overgiving and all of a sudden my back's like, you know, and then it's not this scary thing of, oh my God, my body's doing this thing. It's, I, I'm getting a message now and what do I do with that? And that, that rebirth, that willingness to go into the cocoon and to become the goo and to face the shadows and then come out a butterfly and then live as that butterfly, and then woo, more shadows back in the chrysalis, like in my life and my experience.

It's a beautiful journey. It's. An intense journey. It's a, it's a beautiful and intense way to be, but it's also allowed me and allows the people that I work with to step into versions of themselves that 

Like, I didn't think it was possible that I would be this happy or present or connected or be in a romantic relationship where I'm not behind a mask.

I'm not filtering everything I say because I wanna make sure that he likes me. I wanna make sure that he doesn't leave me because if he leaves, then you know, like it is, it is a deep journey and it is intense to work through the things that we're still holding and so many benefits, like I'm sure you both see that in your lives.

All of the beautiful things, totally unrelated to health come through as

[00:38:08] Amanda: Yeah.

[00:38:08] Rose : embark on this journey of like becoming more at one with ourselves.

[00:38:13] Katie: Yeah.

[00:38:14] Amanda: and I think so many tend to start on this journey for the physical benefits to begin with because our symptoms tend to manifest in the physical first. We, we 

Notice this, you know, dysfunction in our body through pain or illness, and maybe that's where we start out. That's where we started addressing these things.

But as we start peeling back those layers and we come into the nervous system work and the emotional healing, it's like not only do we see that connection between everything, but it's, I, I kind of visualize it like a spiral where it's not a linear. It's, we're, we're coming around and we're doing revolutions and we're revisiting these things.

And then, and then you get humbled multiple times where you think like, oh yeah, I've moved past that. I've, I've healed that part of myself because I brought my awareness to it. And then it comes and rears its ugly head again. And it's like, oh no. Okay. 

[00:39:18] Rose : Yeah, that's, I think that's part of the journey of life. It's like as we excavate those, those wells of emotion, like at first there's, you know, there's so much. And then we're getting into that being 

A somatic sommelier where we're really in touch with our bodies, that we're really noticing what comes up. And the more that we are deeply in touch, the quicker we catch it. You know, we're not just like, I've been irritated for five days and it's your fault. You're like, Hmm, I've been irritated for half an hour. Interesting. Like, what is that? And that's an opportunity also for us to step into our own sovereignty of taking responsibility for our health, our wellbeing, our happiness, how we feel. so easy. So easy. Like even today, right? It's so easy for me to look at my partner and be like, this is your fault. I'm like, okay. Is it though, Hmm? Yeah. It's a refine, refinement, a mastery. Hmm,

[00:40:25] Katie: Accountability.

[00:40:26] Amanda: That.

[00:40:26] Katie: Yeah.

[00:40:27] Amanda: Yeah, that brings up the question of triggers. that's an interesting thing because I think that it maybe in the beginning can be really easy to identify a trigger then avoid the trigger and think like. Okay, I'm good now. I'm just gonna not do that thing. Push that button, eat that food, whatever the, the trigger may be. What, yeah, what's your thoughts on triggers? 

[00:40:52] Rose : Ooh, triggers. So maybe making a distinction between those sort of physical triggers of, you know, food, physical activity and the emotional triggers. the, the first thing around the physical triggers in my journey and when I was helping people recover from pain is it's great to identify them and it's fine to avoid them in the beginning. That's okay. then we have this long list of things emotionally as well, like this long list of things that we're avoiding that we can't do. And that becomes very limiting and very self-enforcing because then we have fear about it. Like, I'll be happy 

As long as, you know, none of these things happen. I don't sit in a chair, I don't have a glass of wine.

You know, my boyfriend doesn't leave the house so he can't see another woman and then boom, healed. Right? Happiness. The, the opportunity with triggers is to see them as it's, it's never the presenting event. Almost never. There are of course instances where that thing is really a thing and we need to deal with that thing majority of the time, it's always pointing back to these wells of emotion that we haven't accumulated. this is making us really angry because we have a well of anger a lifetime of things that we haven't expressed, and so we have a trigger of someone cutting us off in traffic and we're like, it. It's not the person in traffic that doesn't even matter. It's just our mind using that experience as an opportunity to be in touch with this anger 

That is otherwise suppressed. for all of these difficult, you know, grief, anger, sadness, guilt, shame. We, we keep all of these things and so when we're looking at triggers, it's, it's okay to avoid them sometimes, but for that to become a conscious thing okay, it's not really that I can't do these things. It could be, I don't have the bandwidth hold my energy and my knowing and my truth to deal with this trigger right now. Like one day I will, that day is not today. And that's okay. It doesn't have to be, you know, if you've been dealing with a physical thing and you're like, well, I know I should be able to run and today I am putting on my shoes and I'm running, even though I feel like crap. if your heart says yes, sure, but just to make yourself do it it's a trigger. It's just creating more unsafety in your body. So looking at those,

[00:43:23] Amanda: I very much did that at the beginning of my journey because the idea of being diagnosed with an illness and that was a limitation or set of limitations placed on me and exactly what you just you just said. You know, I, I used to run marathons and then I was basically told I couldn't run anymore, I was like, well, I'm gonna run anyway, 

[00:43:46] Rose : Here I go.

[00:43:47] Amanda: you know, just determination is gonna get me through this and it's gonna be fine.

And yeah.

[00:43:54] Rose : Yeah.

[00:43:55] Amanda: It didn't work out that way.

[00:43:57] Rose : in your, in your window of tolerance. So we have this, you know, window of tolerance and things that knock our nervous system out of whack, that push, push us into fight or flight. And you think of it as a river, right? And these emotions, you know, the fear around a trigger or water going through that river and the healing work that we do is to widen those river banks so we can tolerate more and more uncomfortable emotion, uncomfortable sensation, without our system going into full on red alert. And so finding that balance, and it's different for everyone of 

What feels safe, but edgy to work with a, with a trigger, but not pushing yourself so far where you're torturing yourself, because then you're reinforcing that feeling of I can't trust myself, I won't keep myself safe. working within your window of tolerance and then finding whatever tool, support, mentor, coach, therapist to help hold those river banks at first so that you can accumulate more and more safety, widen those river banks for yourself, then those triggers will dissolve. And a big piece of that in my own healing journey and with clients is getting back to the very roots of those core emotional wounds ultimately always boil down to fear, but feeling unloved or like love is conditional or not reliable, feeling unsafe, emotionally, physically, energetically, spiritually, however, and around trust, around self-trust. when we can heal those core wounds, then the triggers naturally dissolve. And it's not something that we're trying to constantly like titrate and overcome and manage and work around, but it's something that's not arising. And then we get to the place where we have so much safety within ourselves. When a trigger comes up, even if the emotion is really unpleasant, we have a deep knowing that it's okay. Even if the physical sensation is really unpleasant, we have a deep knowing that it's okay and that we'll move through it, and that allows the emotional energy to move through and out of our bodies of repressing it back down because it doesn't feel tolerable. 

[00:46:05] Katie: And we can also almost like reverse engineer this, right? And have these pools of emotions that we've created earlier on in our lives. And then we almost like manifest situations in the future to almost like self-sabotage and self harm because that's our comfort blanket, right?

[00:46:25] Rose : Yeah.

[00:46:26] Katie: knowing how to like unlearn that is again, probably something that you.

Work on quite heavily, right? 

[00:46:34] Rose : Hmm.

[00:46:35] Katie: As part of the journey.

[00:46:36] Rose : Yeah. The. The urge to stay in what's familiar. brain does not like change. Even if the status quo is not great, even if it doesn't feel good, your brain knows what it is. And

[00:46:49] Katie: Mm-hmm.

[00:46:50] Rose : mustering the courage to continue that cycle of healing, continue that rebirthing, continue to dissolve that armor because that's what it is. all of these, whether it's physical sensations, emotional sensations patterns of thought, patterns of behavior that are trying to protect us, it's all this armor that we've put on and now it's just heavy we're living in this, this constant heaviness. So to be able to come to a place where we're peeling off the armor in a way that feels safe to us, we're not just trying to like, like rip it off.

Ah, it's uncomfortable. Your nervous system will not deal with that. Like you have to go as at the pace that feels safe and comfortable in your body. And if you try to push it too far too fast, you just end up in this like, eh, right. You're reeling from that experience. You're like, put all the armor back on.

Nevermind. don't wanna take it off. 

[00:47:46] Katie: Yeah. 'cause you feel vulnerable, right? 

[00:47:50] Amanda: I'm curious, how do you navigate that with your clientele? Because I know that you work with a lot of high achievers, high performers, so I imagine that patience in the healing process is not something that comes naturally to your clientele a lot of the time. And, and maybe they do want to just, let's get this, let's rip this off like a bandaid.

Let's do this as fast as possible. How do you navigate that?

[00:48:19] Rose : The way that's as fast as possible is the way that feels safe with your system. And if we meet with resistance, which happens, sitting with that resistance is gonna create more safety and is ultimately gonna make the journey much faster. If we try to push into something where your body is saying no, your heart is saying no, but your mind is like, no, we have to go there.

Now. First of all, your subconscious is not gonna allow you access. So it's sort of a mechanism. But when you understand like if we try to rip that armor immediately, vulnerability feeling is just going to make whatever patterns of thoughts, feelings, protective behavior, symptoms worse because your body, your mind are gonna feel unsafe. so the objective, if you will, of healing is to bring so much love, so much safety, so much trust, so much connection in your system that naturally that armor can come off in pieces. And the shifts are fast. Like I mentioned, when I was recovering from pain, I had my first pain free moment in five weeks.

I was pain free in two to three months. it's not like it takes that long, especially with physical symptoms for me are often the easiest things to help people move through once they're willing to let go of the identity of holding this. And for some people it's, it's like that for some people. It's a little better every day, 2% better every day, days and days.

And it takes a longer time for some people it's immediately 

Gone and then comes back for a week and then it's gone for a day and it comes back for a day. You know, it's being present with what is and knowing that the, the natural consequence of doing deep work, of bringing more safety and love and connection into your mind and your body and energy is that your body will find its balance. It doesn't become about how do I make this thing go away? How do I stop this behavior? How do I stop thinking this? It becomes a question of. How do I find presence and safety in this moment right now, knowing that when I

[00:50:23] Amanda: Yeah.

[00:50:23] Rose : as I do that more and more moment by moment, else will take care of itself. 

[00:50:30] Amanda: Yeah, and it's not about micromanaging the process.

[00:50:33] Rose : Some people do love that, including me. I love to but yeah, that it, it comes back to that discussion around safety and finding the, the right tools, support person, human, the, right human for you to hold space in a way that trust that even if in a moment you don't see the bigger picture that they can because they've lived it and allowing them to, to slow you down sometimes. 

[00:51:01] Katie: Mm. Do you find a lot of the time with your high achieving clients that they struggle to switch between this kind of new aligned person that they're working on and then being a type of person in their working environment and also having to like, make that switch between two different people? 

[00:51:22] Rose : it's, it's not about creating a separate identity that you live in when you go to meditation retreats, and then you go back to your real life and you're living in that paradigm. I, I like to look at it like this. So we come in as an egg, and then we're conditioned as a duck. So we have all of these duck tendencies, right?

All of these survival patterns, all of this way of achieving. And, but we're really a swan, so right? We're this ugly duckling and we have all of this. And so healing isn't about slaughtering the duck and becoming the swan. It's about holding loving space for both 

The duck and the swan. So you can think about this as like, this is where the, the 3D density, where we feel scarce and we feel separate, and we feel like we have to prove ourselves and we're accomplishing something because otherwise we have judgment.

We feel bad, and the swan is in alignment with our souls, right? It, it is our higher self embodied. And so you can go to any meeting, any task, and be just here, or you can go to any meeting, any task and be here. And so it's not about creating a different version of yourself but de armoring and stepping into that identity more and more of who you really are. And that translates off between all aspects of your life. When you're at work, when you're with friends, when you're with family, when you're at the office, it's, it's recalibrating you to a background of safety and connection and happiness. So the way that you show up is different. And it doesn't mean that you stop achieving.

It doesn't mean that you stop the marks on the chart, but 

The energy behind it is very different. It's not coming from this frantic, urgent survival, I have to do this. It's coming from this aligned, inspired action place. Like when I was in public health, when I was a program assistant, I had an enormous amount of stress and I was getting ready for a retreat at that time overseas, and I was like, color coding something. Stress, oh my gosh. Stress when I was a country representative with all this responsibility over security and finances and deliverables and same stress even though objectively, you know, the experience of stress that we feel has nothing to do with what's going on in the external world. It's a story that we're telling ourself. It's how our nervous system is set. It's our energetic template of am I. Secretly, you know, an imposter. Am I 

Secretly unworthy? Am I secretly bad at things that I have to overcompensate and be, go, go, go, go, going all the time? Or trust myself? I've got this actually. And even if I have a hundred things on my to-do list, I know I'm gonna do them one by one. I'm not

[00:54:16] Katie: Mm

[00:54:17] Rose : looking at my to-do list and be like, do you see all this? Look at it. Look at it like this is not helpful. And so

[00:54:23] Katie: mm

[00:54:24] Rose : from a place of more alignment, then can move through those tasks and, and deadlines and creation in a way that feels good to us as opposed to this like old trauma response kind of way.

[00:54:37] Katie: Yeah, and I can imagine that you see a lot of people going from like different mentalities as well. So instead of them being more like a manager in their role, they become more of a leader and that in turn filters into different areas of their life, whether that be 

Relationships or friendships, but actually improving their working relationship with themselves.

I can imagine you see a lot of the time that they actually improve as, as a leader and start fitting more of a leadership role, which in turn would create more success within the team, right? It,

[00:55:09] Rose : Mm-hmm. Yeah, exactly.

[00:55:11] Katie: yeah.

[00:55:12] Rose : more of that, like steadiness and energy as well, it also makes space for other people on our team to also step into their sovereignty, to also have the capacity for creative ideas, the capacity to see things in a new way. When we're in survival mode, our higher function of our brain is actually turned off.

Like we cannot be creative. We cannot see new ways. So when we're in this recalibrated background of happiness, contentment, and trust, we can also create that in 

Our leadership. We can create that in our teams, and then things naturally get easier and easier as people are empowered to bring their creativity in the room without. The, the threat of unsafety, it's creating that psychologically, emotionally safe environment where people can come up with creativity or can speak up problems in a place that they know they're going to be safe doing that.

[00:56:05] Katie: Yeah, exactly. And it's so beautiful, isn't it? How this just like filters out into other people? Well, I think it's, yeah, it's super cool. I love it.

[00:56:14] Rose : it's the best part.

[00:56:18] Amanda: I love the word recalibration. I think that's such a wonderful word to use because it really does take the pressure off, doesn't it? When you, if you're in a place where you're looking at yourself as a broken person needing to be fixed, versus, a person that has been conditioned into a way of being, and you're now learning to recalibrate that way of being. That feels, that feels good to my nervous system,

[00:56:45] Rose : there's

[00:56:46] Amanda: that word.

[00:56:46] Rose : compassion there when we can accept responsibility for where we are and what we feel and what we believe, and also realize that there's hundreds of thousands of years of conditioning imprinted on this body. There's the experience of generations that have filtered down to us, and yes, it's our responsibility to hold that and create the version of ourselves and our lives and our leadership that we want. But we didn't put all that stuff in those wells. Like we weren't sitting there consciously, like, oh yes, anger, let me put some of that there. Guilt? Yes. Oh, go on. Then like was all subconscious and it was all around survival. And that can give us this compassion for everyone at a human experience 

Because everyone's doing the best that they can all the time with the tools, information, energy that they have. And we can. Hold ourselves in that same level of compassion. the deep shadow work gets easier because we realize no one consciously put shadows there. No one, like we did not do it to ourselves. We did not consciously traumatize ourselves. We had an experience, we didn't feel safe and supported in that time, and our body, our mind, our energy system decided, Hey, this is unsafe.

I'm just gonna put it in a box. I'm just gonna hold it. I'm just gonna put it here. And it wasn't our fault as such, it's our responsibility to, and ability to respond to that now. But at the time, that was the perfect thing that happened because our system would've been

[00:58:16] Amanda: Hmm.

[00:58:18] Katie: Mm,

[00:58:19] Amanda: Yeah.

[00:58:20] Katie: absolutely.

[00:58:20] Amanda: would love for you to expand a little bit more on the generational trauma piece I think that's something that's really misunderstood or dismissed by people who don't really understand what that means. I. 

[00:58:35] Rose : So the most direct way to think about it, so I'll take my family as an example. Like my maternal grandmother born around the Great Depression. Her father passed away when she was young, and she was raised by a single mom with her brother. Now she had a certain way of looking at the world. The world was unsafe.

Of course it was. There was never enough. Her life experience showed her that men were not to be trusted, obviously, because you know, he died. all of these beliefs, and this is just going back two generations, all of this fear and survival that she held. when she raised my mother, she did that through the lens of all of the emotional stuff that she had collected. So she taught my mother implicitly and explicitly that the world was unsafe, that there wasn't enough. That money was something to be both hated and sought after because it meant safety and this, this dynamic with men about not being able to trust them, but then also having this dynamic of, of needing them. So then we have my mother grows up in a very different time, up in a more empowered time, and yet is still carrying around these beliefs that were engendered by my grandmother growing up with a single mom Great Depression. my mother didn't experience a great depression, but she experienced it through the experience with my grandmother. And so I come along and then my mother raises me. Carrying these, this experience, these imprints, these survival energy of there's not enough and, and all of this stuff around men and all of this stuff around safety. And 

Implicitly and explicitly, she trains me that the world is unsafe. And as you mentioned earlier, Katie, this, when we have these beliefs, it's what we see in the world and that's what's reflected to us.

We continue to create these experiences. that's just back two generations. Just in very simple terms of, so I get to carry the opportunity to carry these experiences of living through the great depression, that fear of what if everything's okay? And then it's not, what if there's a protector to be there for me and then he is not. All of that was implicitly and explicitly taught to me from when I was a baby. And if we wanna go from the epigenetic side of things, even in utero, we're getting all of these chemical signals. About how safe we are in the world. If you think about, you know, hundreds of thousands of years ago, and you're in a village and there's tigers, if your mom is always stressed out, 'cause there's a lot of tigers, there's a lot of cortisol coming through, you're learning even before you get born that there's a lot of tigers there. Now our tigers are usually not actually tigers, but all of this fear, all this survival patterning is passed down in many ways. It's passed down energetically, but it's also passed down in very real ways of being in the world. Thoughts, feelings, behaviors, beliefs. Like in my family there was this very confusing dynamics, but especially around men, right?

That both, we needed them for safety, but also they weren't to be trusted. That makes for some crazy making. So when we think about intergenerational stuff, we can look at it from this. This energetic blueprint of we're taking on not just from generations, but we're taking on the collective consciousness. And we can also look at it as a very simple, well, 

What was the experience of your great-great-grandmother? know, my great-great-grandmother couldn't have a bank account. She couldn't own stuff. And so especially, you know, living in a, in a female body, those imprints of I literally need a man to survive, to have a bank account.

It's not that long ago in our history that that occurred. so we are the women that our grandmother's great, great grandmother's, great, great, great, great grandmother's dreamed into existence through their own work, where we can speak our truth with some level of safety, depending on where you are and what your truth is. We can tune into our hearts, we can live our dreams, we can on our own with or without a partner. But that's very new. very, very new. everything that we've inherited from the generations behind us made a very different life. you go back even, you know, 50 years, no internet, no podcast, no zoom calls, 24 hour news stream. It's a very different life. So if someone's feeling like they're questioning, you know, if they have intergenerational stuff, we all do. We all carry the imprints of our lineage. That's just part of our human experience. But getting curious about, okay, I have this, this relief, this belief or relationship around money, this belief or relationship around relationship, around work, around success, around happiness, 

Around family, whatever.

Kind of doing a bit of an inventory of, of what's here. And most of us will find that none of us intentionally picked those things. They're what we inherited. Yeah. same for our mothers and our mother mothers and our, you know, keep going back. It's just passed down until someone consciously does the healing work to change it. And that's what's being called for in this time where so many people are awakening to new ways of being. New ways of feeling that we're no longer willing to settle for these tiny lives okay. You know, you have 2.4 kids and a white picket fence, and you work nine to five and you balance everything and you're happy.

And actually you have no time for yourself at any point in time. Maybe you'll have time in 20 years when the kids are out of the house and. Like, we're, we're living for retirement. Oh, when I retire, I'm gonna do this. we dream our lives away So the opportunity to come and heal that stuff that's been passed down to us unintentionally, like we, it's so easy to forget that our mothers and our mother's, mothers didn't have access to all of the healing, all of the self-development, all of the tools that we now can so easily find on the internet. They didn't have access. We'd been cut off 

From these, these deeper of, you know, medicine, women and, and healing and connection to the earth. We've been disconnected for a long time. now that we have the opportunity to be more connected to ourselves, more connected to the earth. This is when we get to clear out, heal through that intergenerational stuff so that when we look down and see our basket of beliefs and how we act in the world, how we behave in the world, these are things we consciously choose, things that we are using as hand-me-downs from like, you know, our great, great, great, great, great grand moms. We don't need that. That's not adapted to this world. We get to choose our identities, consciously choose what we're nourishing, consciously choose what we're dissolving, what we're healing. We don't have to just make do with whatever happened to be put in our basket over the last few hundred years and way before that.

[01:06:23] Katie: And that's where accountability comes back in again, right?

[01:06:28] Rose : Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's this responsibility without being at fault, without being at blame, and yet we are responsible to. Choose what we continue to keep in our basket. What do we wanna

[01:06:43] Katie: Hmm.

[01:06:43] Rose : in and

[01:06:43] Katie: I.

[01:06:44] Rose : do we wanna take out? And if, you know, there, there are so many people who are having an experience of feeling like, what's in my basket is just what's in my basket.

I'm an anxious person, I'm a high achiever, I'm bad in relationships. Whatever that is, it's a choice to hold that you don't have to hold it. And that 

Is a radical change. That is a radical invitation for healing, for growth, for newness. That we get to choose our identity, we get to craft it. We can take off all of these masks. The truth is that most people walking around idea who they really are, idea. I was conditioned to be, you know, a high achiever and showing up and, Ultimately didn't give me the happiness that I thought it would. You know, I thought I would get the country director title.

That was my objective for 10 years, become a country director. I did that and that's when I started putting my head on the table at lunch 'cause I was exhausted. So that, that identity piece is so powerful and that's, that's one of the stickiest things that we, we are conditioned to think we can't change, but we can. That's the beauty of this life experience and the beauty of going on a healing journey like this.

[01:08:02] Katie: mm So what would you say living in alignment means to you now and how does it feel different than the life you used to chase? I.

[01:08:13] Rose : Oh, alignment is a, is a moment by moment thing. It's, it's not a check mark where I'm like, now I'm living an aligned life and bring on the unicorn rainbow road. Here I go. Alignment is for me, trusting the guidance that's coming from my heart and living in a place of a background of happiness and 

Contentment allowing my full breadth of human experience. So it used to be that my heart wasn't even like not included in decision making. It didn't even know this was an option. Now, if I'm deciding where to go, what to who to spend time with, more and more I find myself actually asking my heart like, is this aligned? Yes or no? And let me tell you what, oftentimes we don't wanna ask our heart 'cause we don't actually wanna know. We

[01:09:14] Amanda: Hmm.

[01:09:14] Rose : to do the thing that we intellectually think is. Is the thing. So for me it's a journey of moment by moment journey of being in trust with myself and my heart. That I actually do know, that I know what's best for me, I know what I want, or I know that I'm tired and I'm cranky and I need a nap. Like this thing is offline, can't reach it. Nap, snack, sleep. Don't make any big, big decisions. If I can't hear her, it's not a big decision day and that's okay. The life that I was chasing after, before was I thought that when I was married and I've been married twice. When I was married and I was a country director, then I would be happy no time before that, obviously, because that wasn't enough, but I would be happy.

Then I had a specific salary figure. I thought, okay, when I passed six figures, then happiness boom, done, andIt was something that I ended up towards the end of my career in public health feeling really jaded, feeling really disillusioned, feeling like, on the one hand I was proud and I'm still proud of the work that I did to support people in their health.

But it was, it was not enough. It was not enough. Like going into a village and providing family planning and mosquito nets wasn't enough. I didn't come with roads. I didn't come with food and agriculture. I didn't come with jobs. I just came with this little, this, these things which were helpful, but it wasn't enough it hurt my heart, like the amount of human suffering that I was witnessing, that I felt helpless to do anything about I, but it was what I was supposed to be doing. And so. I did it anyway, even though it was hurting my heart. And so now I don't do things that hurt my heart anymore as much as I can. I try to listen to that guidance and I notice when I do and when I don't, and I give myself compassion in the moments when I don't, most of the time, most of the time. So, yeah, it's, it's really a trusting myself, trusting the universe. It's, it's easy in our day and age to get spun up in the mental place about, okay, what's gonna happen? Like, I'm a digital nomad. I travel full time. I'm an entrepreneur. I work with clients. There's no, there's no safety net back there. There's no like, no one's coming to save me.

And being in alignment also means being in my own calibration of safety love and trust. do I have moments when I'm in scarcity and fear and getting all worked up mentally? Of course I do. I'm still a human, but it's bringing myself back and, and discerning and noticing when I'm in alignment. you can tell, because for me, when I'm out of alignment, hamster wheel in my mind, he's like, I took a Red Bull. Like, oh my gosh, what's going on up there? Okay. He is gotten his little, little mitts on the Red Bulls and he is going for it. 

And

[01:12:37] Katie: Hmm.

[01:12:37] Rose : I can drop myself back into my body. I can recalibrate my energy in that moment and come back to the truth of who I am. And sometimes I'm like, that hamster has had six Red Bulls. I'm tired. I'm gonna watch a couple movies and go to bed and just let the hamster ride it out because you can't fight the hamster once he's had six red bulls. There's no, there's no use having the compassion of, of realizing. When in those moments where I'm knocked off, if in that moment I can't quite bring my, bring myself back, it's okay. I can be out for a couple of hours for a day, and I know that. I think the biggest difference is knowing that I will get back to alignment. I will get back to a place of feeling connected, feeling loved, feeling safe. Even if in a moment my brain is like, Nope, it's impossible. I'm like, I know you're lying to me.

Actually, the biggest change.

[01:13:35] Katie: I love that. That's beautiful, isn't it?

[01:13:39] Rose : Hmm. 

[01:13:41] Amanda: Yeah. Having that to be in choice and to be able to witness those hamster thoughts and not necessarily follow them for days and weeks and months, I think is the biggest gift. Because I still have, I still have fear, thoughts that come up, scarcity thoughts, old patterns that reemerge, I think that we all do, but it's, it's great to be able to recognize them and not completely, like, to them like, okay, we're going down this path again.

[01:14:15] Rose : To identify with them. I think that's the,

It's going from a place of, I am a, an anxious person. I am a jealous person. I am a reactive person to, oh, I'm noticing jealousy here. Oh, I'm noticing fear here. And then following up with, okay, do I have the bandwidth to sit with this right now? And if it's

[01:14:37] Katie: Mm

[01:14:37] Rose : work through it, breathe through it, allow it through. And if it's no, be like, this is here. I'm, I'm going with containment. I'm putting in a box, I'm putting on the shelf, but I'm coming back when I have

[01:14:49] Katie: mm

[01:14:49] Rose : bandwidth tools and support to do that. It's not shoving it the corner forever, but it's allowing yourself to be, again, at choice, to create that safety, to work through 

[01:15:00] Katie: Mm. and just practicing this over and over and over again. And also living in fulfillment must just be so liberating for you and. I think a lot of people will be able to resonate with that. Being their north star and being in that place is really what they want. So seeing you as a role model is just, I just think it's beautiful, 

[01:15:25] Rose : That

[01:15:26] Katie: Yeah.

[01:15:26] Rose : or to say, okay, this is, this is not the moment. I'm gonna put this aside, but I will come back for it. 

Thank you. It's been a journey and continues to be.

[01:15:37] Katie: Lifetime endeavor.

[01:15:38] Rose : Yeah.

[01:15:39] Katie: if you could leave our listeners with one message about healing, what would it be?

[01:15:43] Rose : Hmm. You deserve it. You deserve to feel however you wanna feel. Whatever time, energy, whatever that takes to live the life that you wanna be living here, you deserve. It you're worth it, and it's possible. 

[01:16:02] Amanda: Yeah. That's fantastic. Thank you Rose so much for joining us. 

[01:16:07] Rose : you. 

[01:16:08] Katie: It's been a pleasure.